As an investor, you must answer two crucial questions: "How often should I invest?" and "How much should I invest?"
On yesterday's Faith & Finance, SMI's executive editor Mark Biller explained how "dollar-cost averaging" provides a time-tested approach to answering those questions.
Mark and host Rob West also fielded calls about:
Concerns that the U.S. could adopt a digital currency;
Avoiding financial risk in later life;
Getting started with investing; and
Paying medical bills by withdrawing from an IRA.
Click the arrow below to listen. Scroll down for the transcript.
Faith & Finance airs weekday mornings on American Family Radio. A different version airs each weekday afternoon on Moody Radio.
(For more radio appearances by members of the SMI team, visit our Resources page.)
Transcript
Rob West:
Want a hot investment tip? Okay, don't tell anyone, but you just need to answer two simple questions and you're likely on the path to making money.
I'll talk about it first with Mark Biller today, and then it's onto your calls at 800-525-7000. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio — biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. (theme music ends)
Well, Mark Biller joins us again today. He's executive editor at Sound Mind Investing, where he and his team take complicated investing concepts and simplify them so the rest of us can understand them. Mark, great to have you back with us.
Mark Biller:
Well, thank you.
Rob West:
Okay. We said that you just need to answer two questions, Mark, to be a successful investor. So what are the two questions we're talking about?
Mark Biller:
Well, Rob, no matter what investing strategy you follow, we have several of them here at SMI. Those two key questions are, "How often should I invest?" and "How much should I invest?" And a simple way to make those decisions is to use a formula approach that eliminates any inconsistency and guesswork out of that process.
Rob West:
Yeah, and I'm guessing that's not just any old formula but perhaps one in particular, right?
Mark Biller:
Yeah, that's right. You know, the best-known formula for answering these "how much" and "how often" questions is something that you guys talk about frequently here on the program. It's called "dollar-cost averaging."
Now, the key to dollar-cost averaging is simply you're going to make the same amount of an investment, and you're going to make those investments at regular time intervals. So that simple framework makes it really easy to follow. And it's basically what millions of people do every month in their 401(k) or other workplace retirement plans.
So, for example, you might choose to invest $800 a month or $400 per pay period. The important thing is that you can pick an amount that you're able to stick with faithfully over time.
Rob West:
Yeah. And sticking with it faithfully means you have to do this, of course, for a long period of time — five years at the very least — that way you have time to ride out an extended bear market. Obviously, 40 years would be a lot better.
Mark Biller:
Yeah, 40 years would be fantastic. <laugh> Y'know, big picture, the beauty of this dollar cost averaging approach is it frees you from worrying about whether you're buying stocks at the wrong time.
Because you're always investing the same amount, you're going to get more shares for your money when stock prices fall [and] you're going to buy fewer shares when prices rise. And so, in effect, you'll be buying more shares at these bargain prices and fewer at high prices.
Of course, you won't really know that at the time. It's only when you look back in hindsight that you can really see when stocks were on sale or overpriced, [but] this will help lower your average cost over time.
Rob West:
Yeah. Now, since the market started down and sideways a couple of years ago, folks regularly call in, Mark, as you know, and ask if they should get out of the market — go to cash or stop investing altogether. So what's your advice for those listeners, assuming they, in fact, have that longtime horizon?
Mark Biller:
Yeah, that's a great question, Rob. You know, and for starters, I should say that SMI actually does increase our cash allocation at times when risk seems particularly high. That's built into our long-term process. So I don't want to sound like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth here. We wouldn't do that if we didn't think it was worthwhile over the long term.
But here's the thing. If you're trying to do this on your own, you really shouldn't be moving in and out of the market. And that's doubly true if you're trying to do this on your own and you have a long time horizon of say, 10 years or more. It's just way too hard to know when to move in and out. And the research is pretty clear that most individual investors who try to do that end up hurting their long-term returns.
You know, there's a reason that there are millions of retirees and near-retirees with large 401(k) balances, even though a lot of 'em might not necessarily know very much about investing. And that reason is because they invested regularly, every pay period, and let those 401(k) balances compound year after year through good markets and bad.
Rob West:
One of the things that dollar-cost averaging really helps with is one of the pitfalls of investing, and that is emotional investing. You know, when we're managing our own money, we have a tendency, especially when things get a little bit volatile and maybe we have some uncertainty and fear out there, the natural tendency is to make a move — and usually, it's the wrong move. How does dollar-cost averaging help us overcome that?
Mark Biller:
Yeah, well, that's exactly right, Rob. You know, without a mechanical system like dollar-cost averaging, what tends to happen is most investors only work up the courage to invest after they've seen stock prices rise sharply. And then — on the other side of the ledger — when prices fall, investors become fearful, and then they sell after their holdings are already weighed down.
So, in other words, what normally happens because of investor emotions is they're buying high after moves up, and then they're selling low after stocks fall. That's exactly the opposite of what you're really trying to do.
And the way dollar-cost averaging works, it just steers you right around those two big pitfalls. As long as you're sticking with this process of investing the same amount at these regular intervals, and you keep following that discipline regardless of what the market's doing at the time, then you're going to just go right around those emotional rapids. You don't even have to think about those things.
Rob West:
Yeah, that's really helpful. And I think one of the keys to why this is such a powerful idea when it comes to our long term investing, I know you have some cautions, or at least there are some cautions. Maybe you can mention a few of those related to dollar-cost averaging.
Mark Biller:
Yeah, so the biggest one, Rob, is just simply that dollar-cost averaging doesn't protect you against market losses. So when you go through bear markets, you are going to have those temporary setbacks. And so that's probably the main criticism of dollar cost averaging.
There are others that relate — if a person has a lump sum of money to invest, it may not always turn out the best math-wise to dollar-cost average that instead of investing it right away. But that's a much smaller set of people. Most people don't have a giant amount of money that they're trying to figure out how to invest right now. So those are a couple of the big criticisms, Rob.
Rob West:
Yeah, that's helpful. When we come back, I want to get your take on how somebody can deploy a larger sum of money, whether they should do it all at once, or whether the data says maybe they should spread it out over six months.
We'll tackle that, plus why you don't need to be afraid of bear markets when your dollar-cost averaging. That can be helpful. Much more to come on Faith & Finance. Stay with us.
Rob West:
Mark, specifically related to deploying a lump sum, would you do that — just based on historical data — all at once, assuming you have the right time horizon? Or would you spread that out over a period of, let's say six months as you work that into the market?
Mark Biller:
Yeah, so there are two ways to think about this, Rob. One is the "math" financial way, and the research is fairly clear that because the stock market spends a lot more time advancing than it does declining, that your odds improve of getting the best financial return by putting that money to work right away — as soon as you can. So that's kind of what the math says. It's good to know that.
But what our experience has been doing this with investors for over three decades, and I imagine yours is probably similar, is that's really hard for people to do emotionally. And so that's where dollar-cost averaging can be such a helpful tool when someone has a lump sum — because emotionally it's just a lot easier to make a plan to, say, take that lump sum and divide it up into six pieces and invest one sixth of that each month over a six-month period. Emotionally, that's just a whole lot easier for people to actually pull the trigger and get moving.
Now, the math says, "Don't do that. Put it all in right away." But the emotional side of that is much easier for people to stick to that type of a process.
And so, you know — my big thing, which is more of a practical way of looking at it, is the worst-case scenario is that I talk to somebody about this and they don't do anything! They get paralyzed by the fear of getting moving. And so if the "concession" of dollar-cost averaging that [money] in over time is enough to actually get them out of the starting blocks — and actually get over that inertia and get the process started — then I'm willing to pay that small marginal, average cost of spreading that out rather than putting that all in right away.
Rob West:
Mark, as we try to start to tie a bow on this, give us the reasons you like dollar-cost averaging. Maybe you can sum it up for us.
Mark Biller:
Yeah. So there, there are several good reasons to like it. Rob one, again, it eliminates that "Is this a good time to buy?" question. If you're dollar-cost averaging, every month or every pay period is a good time to invest.
Second, it's imposing a disciplined forced-savings structure, if you will, if you wanna think of it that way — that you're making "installment payments" on your future financial security.
Third, we mentioned that dollar-cost averaging is going to help you buy more shares when prices are low [and] fewer when prices are high. So your average price over time is likely to be lower than with a lot of other ways of buying stock.
And last — and I think this one's really important — it automates your investing, which really helps eliminate a lot of the other errors that people make. It gets you around those emotional pitfalls.
Dollar-cost averaging is tailor-made for the main way that most people invest, which is workplace plans like 401(k)s, 403(b)s, as well as IRAs. And in all three of those cases, you can automate your contributions. And that is such a big advantage for someone if they can automate this whole process and just let it run over time. That is a great way to build wealth and future financial security.
You know, I think the "bow," Rob, is Proverbs 21 5. This is a great example of "steady plodding brings prosperity." So this is a good tool that anybody can use and put in their investing toolkit and start using it today.
Rob West:
Yeah, that was really helpful, Mark, and I couldn't agree more. This is the way most investors do and really should invest as they think about how to move into the market in a systematic way.
All right. 800-525-7000 if you have questions for Mark today.
By the way, if you'd like to read more about dollar-cost averaging, and "taking the guesswork out of when and how much to invest," that's the title of the article we're discussing today at soundmindinvesting.org. Again, you can access that at soundmindinvesting.org. It's called Taking the Guesswork Out of When and How Much To Invest.
Let's head to Arkansas. Hi Jim, how can we help you, sir?
Caller:
I have 401(k). It has about $210,000 in it — or actually [an] IRA. And, you know, the president talks about, oh, we're all gonna go to a digital currency, kind of an executive order about it. So I guess I'm asking, should I put it all in silver, or should I keep, just stay in stocks right now because they're doing great. The four stocks I do have are doing great. I've made literally a $40,000 increase in the four last four months.
Rob West:
Well, let me get Mark to weigh in on the silver, but let me just make a quick observation here. I understand your concerns about a central-bank digital currency. I share some concerns about a CBDC. But we do need to be clear though that the president doesn't have the authority to establish a central-bank digital currency on his own. That's not the role of the executive branch. It would take congressional action.
And Congress has been very clear about their — well, at least a good portion of Congress — has been very clear about their concerns related to this, privacy being the most significant. Not only that, but [also] social controls, if the Federal Reserve were to have a hand in every transaction and the digital dollar would flow through the Fed.
So we're still a long way off. Basically, what the president did was ask for research to be done. So at this stage, we have nothing more than a series of white papers from several departments of the government all weighing in on this — a lot of them saying that this would be valuable, keep us competitive.
But it's not without its critics. So we're still a long way off from that. We have to wait to see whether that would ever come to pass. And several states are getting ahead of it. You know, Florida came out and said a CBDC violates their uniform commercial code, so you wouldn't be able to use it there. Yeah. So anyway, this is not a foregone conclusion by any stretch.
But despite that, Mark, give us your thoughts just on investing in silver and precious metals, given some of the uncertainties we have around us.
Mark Biller:
Yeah, absolutely. And I would just echo to your point, Rob, that in my experience, generally when people start focusing on one specific factor like what the dollar is likely to do or something like that, that can tend to lead them in a path that's counterproductive because in investing, unfortunately, it rarely is ever "just one thing." You know, there's so many variables. And especially in terms of currencies and things like that, the moves tend to be slow and happen over long periods of time. So that would just be my caution on that.
But directly to the point of silver and precious metals, I like them. We've owned quite a bit higher allocations than in the past over the last year, year and a half. I think, long term, there are a lot of things that are setting up well for precious metals, not the least of which is if we do end up in a recession over the next few quarters, — six to 12 months — it's entirely likely based on everything we've seen from the last 15 years, that the government and the Fed will probably try to stimulate our way out of that. Those measures typically have benefited precious metals because they tend to debase the purchasing power of our dollars and so forth.
So longer term, I think the setup is still pretty good for precious metals, but I would throw out one fairly big caution. And that is that when you look back at what happened in 2008, look back at what happened in 2020, when the market experiences periods of, like, minor panic about markets falling, typically there's a tendency for investors to sell what they can rather than what they want to. And usually right in that mix are the most liquid investments, which include things like gold and silver.
So it's very likely that if we have some kind of a sell-off event that is kind of the very thing that makes people excited about investing in gold and silver, those things can get hit fairly hard, fairly quickly, at the front end of that process. And then only after that happens do we tend to get the policies and announcements from the government and the Fed that make metals rally.
So all of that to say, Jim, I wouldn't go nuts here in adding a whole lot of precious metals. I think that having some is, is probably a good idea. We usually, typically, say for people who aren't following our direct allocation strategies that, you know, maybe 5%, maybe up to 10% of a portfolio is good. But what you may want to do is not load the boat right here, but kind of have an eye out, maybe have some now with an eye to adding more if you see some kind of a big sell-off like that in a fearful market moment,
Rob West:
800-525-7000. Your investing-related questions with Mark Biller just around the corner. Barbara, stay right there. You're up next. We'll be right back.
Rob West:
Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance on American Family Radio. Joining me today — Mark Biller, executive editor at Sound Mind Investing. We're talking investing and specifically dollar-cost averaging, but also taking your investing-related questions at 800-525-7000.
Barbara's in Arkansas. Go right ahead.
Caller:
God bless you for your mission, and thanks for taking my call. Well, thank you. I have an annuity coming due at the end of the year, and it should be in the amount of $60,000. And I really don't know what to do with it — what to invest it in. I'm, you know, I don't have a lot of money — what, what I get from Social Security and other accounts that I have.
Rob West:
Sure. So let's just do a quick rundown of what you've got, Barbara. you said you have an annuity coming due of $60,000. What is your age?
Caller:
91.
Rob West:
Okay. And what other assets do you have? Do you have any liquid savings?
Caller:
I have a money market account that has — I, you know, I just looked at it, but it's about $46,000 in there. And that happens to be doing very well right now.
Rob West:
And then what else? Do you have any other retirement accounts?
Caller:
Well, I have an IRA that has about $34,000 left in it.
Rob West:
Very good. And are you living on Social Security alone?
Caller:
Yeah. $1,850 [a month].
Rob West:
Okay. And does that cover your bills every month?
Caller:
Yes, it does.
Rob West:
Okay, so you're not pulling anything out of any of accounts?
Caller:
Not really, not right now. I, you know, I'm debt free. And I own my little townhouse.
Rob West:
Excellent. Well, it sounds like you're positioned really well, Barbara, and doing a great job. Mark, what thoughts would you have specifically related to this to this annuity?
Mark Biller:
Well, Barbara, one of the principles that we often say at SMI that it's sometimes hard for our members to accept is that you really don't want to take more risk than you need to. You know, investing is not about trying to accumulate the biggest pile, the biggest sum of money that you can, it's about meeting your financial goals.
And so as I'm listening to you and Rob discuss this, you're debt-free, Social Security's covering your expenses. In retirement, especially in that situation, you don't want to take on risks that you don't need to take. And so with, you know, one of the beautiful things — there are a lot of issues that the rising interest rates of the last year have caused for people: higher mortgage rates, higher car loan rates, higher credit card rates, all these things — but the flip side of that coin is that for people like yourself, these higher interest rates are a blessing. I mean, we're able for the first time in 15 years to get decent rates of return without taking on stock market risk, a lot of credit risk, anything like that.
So I would be inclined to look first — you said you had a money market account — I would make sure that the rate that you're getting on that is competitive with what you can get in Treasury bonds right now. But if it is, the money market account may not be a terrible option for this money. You might be able to lock in a little bit higher rate buying Treasury bonds. You can do that directly with the Treasury online.
But I would tend to stick with pretty safe options like that, given that interest rates are gonna give you a pretty decent rate of return right now.
Rob West:
I completely agree. I mean, the only other option would be [to] put it in a CD and maybe get another point or a point-and-a-half — you know, moving from 4-and-a-half to 5-and-a-half plus. But Barbara, what are your thoughts on that?
Caller:
Well, your thoughts go right along with mine. I thought that the least risky thing to do would be to put it into my money market account or buy CDs with a bank that, you know, is pretty trustworthy here. Am I allowed to say? It's, you know, it's connected somehow with Walmart?
Rob West:
Yeah. Very good. Well, it sounds like we're all on the same page then, Barbara. But listen, you're doing a great job with all the [audio dropout at this point]. All the best to you, ma'am. 800-525...
Caller:
Okay. Thank you.
Rob West:
Yes, ma'am. 525-7000 is the number to call if you have a question. Let's head to Arkansas. Hi, Kenneth. Go right ahead.
Caller:
Yes, sir. I'm just sold a home in South Carolina, and I'm just — I don't know anything about the stock market or anything like that. And I don't have any debt. I own a home already in Louisiana, and I'm still working. I'm 60 years old, so I'm kind of listening to the show and getting some ideas of what I need to do.
Rob West:
Very good. Mark, any questions for Kenneth or thoughts?
Mark Biller:
Yeah, Kenneth, do you have a workplace retirement, a 401(k) or anything that you're eligible to contribute to?
Caller:
Yes, I just started doing that. I was kind of down on my luck for a while, and I just got a good job. And now I'm contributing to that. I just started maybe two years ago.
Mark Biller:
Okay. Well, that's great. That's usually the first place that we would suggest people look because a lot of times you get matching contributions that can really accelerate your saving there.
I would focus there — in part because that's also gonna help narrow the field down in terms of the investment choices. Eventually, as you learn more about investing, you might wanna expand those choices, but initially, it can be a little bit overwhelming when you've got the whole buffet table of options there in front of you.
So I would focus on that 401(k) and trying to get as much invested in through that plan as you can.
Do you feel like you have a good idea of how much should be going into stocks versus bonds, that kind of thing?
Caller:
I don't know anything about that. I don't know. I almost need to get with an advisor or something like that. It's just I'm late starter on this, and so that's kind of what I'm calling you. I do know what you just said earlier, that's just jump in and go.
Mark Biller:
Yeah, I do like the idea of finding an advisor that can help guide you through this. I would also like to send you a copy of our SMI Handbook that really goes step-by-step through the basics of "What are stocks?" "What are bonds?" "What are mutual funds?" "What is an appropriate mix and blend of stocks and bonds for a person of a particular age?"
It'll walk through the basics of investing in a 401(k) as well as an IRA — an individual retirement account. And how sometimes a person can even do both of those at the same time, which may be a good idea for someone like yourself who has a bit of money in a lump sum that you're trying to get deployed in the most tax-efficient way possible.
Rob West:
So you stay on the line, Kenneth and Adam will get your information. We'll get you a copy of The Sound Mind Investing Handbook out to you right away. That's our gift to you. So that'll come to you by mail.
If you want to find a Certified Kingdom Advisor in your area, Kenneth, and you're comfortable on the web, just head to FaithFi.com. That's FaithFi.com, and click "Find a CKA." And then finally, soundmindinvesting.org would be a great resource for you as well.
Listen, there's a lot you can learn here, and we want to help. So I think these things will get you pointed in the right direction. God bless you, my friend. Thanks for calling.
Quickly to Texas. Hi Donna. Go ahead.
Caller:
Hi, thanks for taking my call. I have an IRA that I don't really feel like is doing great, but I don't really know how lot about all of this. I will have some medical bills coming up, so I'm wondering could I take that money out, how much it would cost me, or do I just need to transfer it over to someplace else that maybe it would do better?
Rob West:
Yeah, Donna, is this money that you need in the near future for living expenses? I know you mentioned the medical bills. If you wanted to let this ride out, whether it was in the current investments or by repositioning it to new investments, do you have the ability to cover those medical bills from another source?
Caller:
Not really. You know, I can try to pay it off a hundred bucks at a time, but that might take me quite a while. <laugh>
Rob West:
Yeah. Are they willing to work with you on a payment plan like that?
Caller:
They will. I'm gonna have to wait and see, you know, how much the total is gonna be, and, you know, how low they'll let me go.
Rob West:
Yeah. And how much is in this IRA right now?
Caller:
Just about $10,000. $10,400 — somewhere around there.
Rob West:
Yeah. Right. You know, let's do this. We've gotta take a quick break. If you'll stay on the line, we'll come back and give you our thoughts on kind of where you go from here on this. we'd love to tackle this and help you think through whether you use this money or maybe get on a payment plan and let it ride.
We'll be right back in our final segment with Mark Biller. Stay with us.
Rob West:
Mark, how would you help her think through this decision?
Mark Biller:
Yeah, I think the main thing, Donna, is if you need this money to pay for these medical expenses, then it's less of an issue of, "Do I want to move it? Do I want it to be in different investments?" and it's more of a, "I need it to pay these bills."
Now, Donna, I hate to ever ask a lady her age, but how old are you? Because that matters from a tax standpoint here.
Caller:
I don't mind. I'm 63.
Mark Biller:
Okay. So the big cutoff number for IRA withdrawals is 59-and-a-half. If you're younger than 59-and-a-half, you typically have to pay a penalty in addition to any taxes, if those apply. But once you're over 59-and-a-half, thankfully, you don't have to pay that penalty. So that's one vote, at least, in favor of being able to use that money for those medical bills — at least you're not going to have to pay that extra penalty.
For folks younger than that who may be listening, there are some hardship withdrawal clauses with IRAs. So that's something to look into if you're, if someone else is in a similar situation.
But I think that, Donna, if it's a case of you don't have money to pay these bills somewhere else, then taking that money out of the IRA sounds like that's probably what we're gonna need to do.
Rob, do you have any other thoughts on that process?
Rob West:
No, I think that's exactly right. So that at least gives you some thoughts on that, Donna, as you consider where you go from here. We appreciate you checking in with us. God bless you. Let us know if we can help you further along the way.
Mark, before we wrap up today, let's just pivot quickly to the markets and the economy. Obviously, the market hit a 2023 high yesterday — on the Dow Jones, at least. We're seeing a lot of upward momentum — I guess in large part due to a pretty successful earnings season, the resiliency of the economy, and then most recently, the positive data on inflation.
What do you make of what you're seeing right now and the prospects still of a recession this year?
Mark Biller:
Yeah, you know, I think that that one-two punch of the economy not crumbling quickly — like a lot of people thought it would in the first half of the year — as well as, like you said, inflation coming down, has people feeling pretty good right now.
I do think there's still some risks. You know, high interest rates don't affect everybody right away, but every day that rates stay high, that's one more person who's getting a mortgage at a higher rate or needing to finance a vehicle at a higher rate. So these tend to have a cumulative effect — kind of a lagged effect. So I do still have some concerns about a recession showing up towards the end of this year, maybe even into next year now. So that keeps getting pushed back, which is why the markets are feeling pretty good today.
That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm expecting something horrible in the future. But I don't know that we're necessarily completely out of the woods yet the way the markets — the stock market — is tending to kind of portray, like "The worst is over. That was last year. Now it's clear sailing ahead." I'm not quite there yet.
But admittedly, when market price doesn't confirm a narrative — this kind of scary narrative of recession and so on and so forth — our experience is you usually do pretty well to go with the market price over the narrative. So that's, that's the direction we're leaning right now, but with a wary eye on where, where we may be 3, 6, 9 months from now.
Rob West:
Yeah. Is it really just still all a matter of what the Fed's going to do between now and the end of the year that's really gonna move this market, do you think?
Mark Biller:
See, I actually don't think it is because I think the Fed could stop after a July hike this month. And that policy that they've done over the last 15 months of raising rates to this point will continue to have a cumulative drag effect.
Think about this, Rob. If you've got a ceiling fan and you stick your fingers in there, it's going to start slowing that fan, but the fan isn't going to stop right away. But the longer you keep your fingers in that fan, the slower and slower it's going to go. And these high interest rates are like fingers in the fan of the national economy. So it is slowing. We haven't actually gone into a recession, but we see that growth rate slowing. So that's the thing to keep an eye on.
Rob West:
Yeah, that's really helpful. Although I do feel like maybe we ought to give a "don't try this at home" disclaimer, on that analogy. <laugh>
Mark Biller:
Exactly right. That's right.
Rob West:
That's really good, though.
Mark, so appreciate you, my friend. We have covered a lot of ground today, and you've, as always, shared some really helpful insights with us. We appreciate you stopping by.
Mark Biller:
Thanks, Rob. It's always my pleasure.
Rob West:
All right. God bless you, my friend. That's Mark Biller, executive editor at Sound Mind Investing. Hey, check out the article called Taking the Guesswork out of When and How Much to Invest. It's the topic we've been discussing today, and it's at soundmindinvesting.org. You can go get it right now.
If you'd like to check out Sound Mind Investing, that's a great website to do it as well.
Well, folks, we're so appreciative of your calls today [and] you listening. We always love encouraging you, bringing you practical advice, but rooted in scripture, understanding that God's word is the source. The best that Wall Street has to offer finds its roots and biblical wisdom! So let's live with a biblical worldview in every area of our lives.
Let me say thanks to my team today: Robert Sutherland, Adam Suddeth, and Devin Patrick. Couldn't do it without those gentlemen.
Thank you for being here as well. Have a great rest of your day and come back and join us tomorrow.
By the way, if you'd like to learn more about FaithFi, you can check us out at FaithFi.com. God bless you!
