On yesterday's Faith & Finance Live on Moody Radio, SMI’s executive editor Mark Biller discussed seven factors that contribute to long-term investing success.
To listen, click the play button below. Scroll down for the transcript.
Faith & Finance Live with host Rob West airs weekday afternoons on Moody Radio. A different version airs weekday mornings on American Family Radio.
(More radio appearances by members of the SMI team are posted on our Resources page.)
Transcript
Rob West:
Hi, I am Rob West. When it comes to finances and especially investing, it's important to get the big moves right.
Mark Biller joins us today to go over the things that need special attention, and then it's onto your calls at 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance Live — biblical Wisdom for your financial decisions. (opening music ends)
Well, Mark Biller is our guest today. He's the executive editor at Sound Mind Investing, an underwriter of this program. He's a regular contributor — and at Sound Mind Investing, they always get the big moves right. Mark, great to have you back with us.
Mark Biller:
(chuckle) Well, thanks Rob. Appreciate that.
Rob West:
So Mark, you have a great article on this really important topic in the latest Sound Mind Investing newsletter, and it's, I guess, at its core, really about setting priorities, right?
Mark Biller:
Yeah, it really is. Rob, 25 years ago or so, when I first started writing for SMI, there was a popular personal finance idea that was kind of going around that I would loosely call the "latte factor." And the idea was that focusing on small daily spending decisions like making your coffee at home instead of buying it every day at a coffee shop or making your lunch at home instead of eating out. Those types of small financial decisions were the primary lever to help people get control of their finances.
And that was a popular idea. I admittedly have made that argument myself, and basically what proponents of that would say is they'd run the numbers and say, if you stopped buying $5 coffee every morning and made it at home instead and invested that money over the course of your life, by the time you're 70 years old, you could be a zillionaire.
And the thing about that, Rob, is you and I both know that there is some truth to that. The idea is not, it's not false on its face when somebody's trying to get control of their finances, everything matters. But eventually what happened was the financial community kind of came around to recognizing that while those small spending decisions are important and they do add up, it's really about getting the big financial decisions right. In other words, how much are you spending on your house or on your car? Those decisions matter a lot more. And it really boils down to the idea that it really doesn't matter how disciplined your coffee game is, if you overspend on your house by $150,000 more than you really can afford, you're going to have big financial problems.
So the big idea of the article that we're discussing today is that same principle applies to investing, and if you get the big things right, you're going to be well down the road to success.
Rob West:
Let's begin to dive into these. Perhaps we'll kick it off with one. The first thing that's the big thing we should focus on.
Mark Biller:
Yeah. Well, what a lot of people don't realize is that successful investing is really more about behavioral factors than financial knowledge. In other words, it has more to do with how you behave than how the market behaves. And that should be good news because we don't have any control over what the market does, but we have a lot of control over what we do as individuals.
So the article covers seven big factors that are going to impact your success as an investor, and all of these are within your direct control. Now, the first of those seven factors is whether you have an investment plan. And so to paraphrase the Cheshire Cat in Alice in Wonderland, "If you don't know where you're going, it doesn't matter which way you go."
Now, hopefully, listeners aren't that nonchalant about their finances and financial future. The point is simply that to get to your financial destination, it's really going to help if you have a detailed plan. So a good retirement plan normally starts with figuring out your target retirement date and how much money you hope to have in your retirement portfolio by that date. And from those two starting points, you can work backwards to figure out the best steps for accomplishing that.
Rob West:
Yeah, that's really helpful. This next one has to do with how much you're investing. Share that with us.
Mark Biller:
Yeah, that's right. So it's startling, Rob, when you look at the statistics, how few people have ever quantified "How much money am I going to need when I want to retire?" And if you don't have that target, then it's really hard to get to that second step, which as you just mentioned, is figuring out how much do I need to invest every month in order to hit that long-term goal.
Now, generally speaking, as you're starting to think about how much you need to invest each month, this is going to depend somewhat on how early you start saving. If you start early and you're in the accumulation phase, then for most folks investing 10 to 15% of their monthly gross income is probably going to be in the ballpark to build a decent retirement nest egg. For older folks, they may have to bump that up if they haven't saved when they're younger.
Now, there are some free, less-detailed retirement planning calculators available online that can help people with this. SMI members have a tool that we provide called Money Guide, which is a really powerful, detailed retirement planning tool that's available through their SMI membership. But it might be worth a quick search for listeners who aren't SMI members to try to find a retirement plan and calculator for that.
Once you figure out how much you're going to be investing each month, that's going to lead you into the third big factor. And that is, "Okay, I know how much to invest, but what do I invest in?" And so that third big factor is figuring out what your "asset allocation" should look like.
And it's important to remember there's no such thing as a "perfect" portfolio that's going to help you navigate the right side of every single market move. Instead, what you're really shooting for is the right mix of investments — and that's going to be the one that's going to most closely match your time horizon and your personal risk tolerance. And we're really talking about splitting your money between stocks and bonds. Those are the two biggest buckets for most people.
We have a Risk Tolerance Quiz on the SMI website that can help people figure out how much they should have in stocks versus bonds, the appropriate level of risk, and that's going to help your portfolio generate not only the level of gains that you need when the market's going up, but also probably more importantly, what's an acceptable level of risk and losses in market downturns like we've had over the last month or so.
Rob West:
All right, let's work some phone calls in today. By the way, if you have a question for Mark Biller today on anything investing-related, this is your opportunity: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. You can call right now.
Let's begin in Atlanta. Hi Andrew! Go ahead.
Caller:
Hey, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Rob West:
Sure, absolutely.
Caller:
So, my wife and I are young. I'm 24 this year. She's 21. We've done very well keeping our cost of living very low — under about $40,000. I'm working now, she's getting a part-time job and will be going into a full-time job, and we're going to be out of debt in about a year. And so there's a lot of finances we're coming into, and we're just really unprepared for what we need to do to make sure that we don't waste the time we have before we retire. She wants to work her whole life. I want to work my whole life, so there's not an issue there. But we really want to pay — I mean, one of the biggest goals is we want to pay for a house in cash. But I don't know if that's doable or any really the steps or what we need to put into.
Rob West:
Wow. Yeah. Andrew, next time I go on vacation, you're hosting the show. Man, you guys got it going on. Mark, what do you think?
Mark Biller:
Yeah, that really is great. You got a great setup, Andrew. I really applaud you for that. And even for these goals, the desire to live debt-free is a big deal. It's pretty counter-cultural these days.
It's always a little bit tricky sometimes balancing these financial priorities. And so one of the things that you'll want to prayerfully think through as you're getting into these jobs and as potentially there are opportunities like matching in a 401(k) and things like that, is determining, "Do we want that debt-free house — paying in cash — enough that we're going to forego" what you could think of as free money from your employer potentially in a match in a 401(k).
There's some decisions like that that really, they're not really right or wrong answers, Andrew. They come down to what you and your wife prayerfully decide is the way that you want to go. I never want to talk somebody out of a desire to be debt-free or to pay cash for a house or anything like that, but those are some of the factors.
If you are really prioritizing the house, then of course you're not going to want to tie up money in traditional retirement accounts that usually have withdrawal penalties and things like that — early withdrawal penalties. So you'd be looking more at taxable accounts and having to pay, potentially, tax on those gains as you're saving and accumulating.
Rob, what are your thoughts?
Rob West:
Yeah, I mean I love the way you're thinking and I couldn't agree more, Mark. I think a couple of things. Number one is if the Lord has given you all a conviction to be debt-free, go for it and don't look back. If, however, you're comfortable accelerating the payoff of the mortgage while also investing for the future, and yes, giving first and really thinking about how much is enough and how much you want to take and redirect into God's kingdom, that's okay too. Again, there's no wrong decision here.
And so I think it really does come down to, "Do we want to leverage these years of where compounding is really powerful and get some of this money going into a tax-deferred environment to grow for the long haul?"
I hear you in that you want to continue to work. I love that idea. That's kind of my philosophy. God created us to be workers. There may, however, come a time where you're unable to work and so you do want something to set aside for the future. The amount I think is between you and the Lord and that comes down to that finish.
But again, throw all that out if you guys just really feel like the Lord has given you a conviction to be debt-free and just go for that home payoff as the first and most important priority.
Does that make sense, though?
Caller:
That does, and that's a great point. One of the things that my wife and I are definitely set on is we know that we've been handed an amazing opportunity. We have our home here in a very low income place that is — also the houses reflect that. So I know that with the blessings we've been given, we want to just pour it back in as much as possible. And so that's the biggest goal.
Rob West:
Yeah. Oh, I love that. That's so good.
Well, let's do this. I want to send you a copy of our magazine, Faithful Steward, because one of the articles in there is "Setting Your First Finish Line." And I think that article from Cody Hobelmann will be an encouragement to you. I think you'll just enjoy reading the rest of it as well. So stay on the line, we'll get your information, get that right out to you.
I love your heart. I love that you all are living modestly. I love that you have some big goals. I would say just continue to listen to the Lord and follow his leading. Money as a tool for you guys to hold loosely and steward wisely. We appreciate your call today.
We'll be right back on Faith and Finance Live.
Rob West:
Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions. Mark Biller here today — we're talking about Getting the Big Moves Right when it comes to investing, and I know that's what you want to do. By the way, this article will be a big help. It's available for you at soundmindinvesting.org.
We do have some lines open if you have investing-related questions today, you can call right now: 800-525-7000.
Let's go back to the phones, Cleveland, Ohio. Jeff, how can we help you?
Caller:
Greetings, how are you?
Rob West:
Doing well, sir.
Caller:
Great. Listen, I have two different major investments. I have rental houses and I'm playing in the market. And as the market is playing so badly at this time, wouldn't be better just to pull the money off the market and pay off some mortgages or put some money towards the mortgage?
Rob West:
Yeah, I certainly hear you in that and we'll address that. Let me ask you a couple of questions. So what do you have right now in investible assets at the risk of the market?
Caller:
I have $60,000. Actually, I think it went down 10. I think I'm down to $50,000 now. I don't want to look today.
Rob West:
Okay, $50,000. And what do you have in real estate?
Caller:
I have two mortgages. Actually, I have five houses. We're living in one, I'm renting four of them, and I have two mortgages. I have one for 50 and one for maybe 160.
Rob West:
Okay, got it. And the account that has roughly $50,000, is that a taxable account, or is it some sort of retirement account?
Caller:
No, it's a Fidelity account.
Rob West:
So it is a taxable account. It's not in an IRA or something like that?
Caller:
Definitely not.
Rob West:
Okay, got it. Yeah, so anything you would when you cash out of that, if you were to do that, you'd have tax consequences either or a capital loss where you could perhaps use that to your advantage, or you may have some gains where you'd have to pay some taxes on it. So I think the question is — really comes down to asset allocation.
I mean the good news is you don't see the value of your home every day or the home's plural that you have. If you did, you may decide to sell one of those. The challenge with the market is that there's a constant reminder every tick staring us in the face. I mean, the reality is the S&P 500 is basically down about 4.5% from the end of 2024, which wasn't very long ago, and it was up more than 20% last year and about the same the year before. And so we have some massive upside.
And remember, we don't look at the market in a week or a month or a quarter. We look over the long term. And I think the big idea here is as long as you're properly diversified within your investment selections, and we haven't talked about that, but we also want to be diversified across asset classes.
And so you have a lot of money in real estate. Is that a bad thing? No, I don't think so because real estate is a great long-term investment and it can generate income and there's real property there — and so there's a lot of things to like about it. It's less passive, as you probably well know, there's a lot more active involvement in managing that asset. But nevertheless, it is a way to diversify among asset classes away from stocks and bonds. And that really heeds the council of Ecclesiastes 11:2, which is we don't put all of our eggs in one basket.
And so we've got some stocks over here and we've got some real estate over there. And within our real estate we're diversifying, within our stocks, we're diversifying. You put it all together and there's a sound financial strategy there. And then we lay a biblical worldview underneath all of that. And that means we hold it loosely, and we know God owns it all and we're just trying to be faithful as a manager. So I think that's the backdrop with which to approach this.
Mark, I know you obviously live in this world every day and experience and investors, when we have corrections going on in the market that have these thoughts and they're certainly valid thoughts, what would you say?
Mark Biller:
Yeah, absolutely. I think the irony here — and we all do this so I'm not picking on you, Jeff, at all — but the time to really think about maybe taking a little off the table from your stock market portfolio to apply to the mortgages is when stocks are at those all-time highs like they were earlier in the year, following those back to back, huge up years that Rob was describing. But it's human nature that we wait until stocks have had the 10% pull back, the 12% decline, and that's when we start thinking, "Well, maybe I should lighten up here."
So that's just something that down the road, as you continue to manage these two portfolios side by side, you might use this experience as a little bit of a reminder in the future that when you've had a really, really strong run in one or the other, that maybe that's the time to do a little bit of rebalancing back the other direction.
As Rob's saying these types of corrections and pullbacks, we haven't had a 10% market correction in about a year and a half. And if you look back historically that's right on schedule, we average the market averages 10% or so, pullback correction just about every year and a half. And so, at this point, there isn't a lot to suggest that this is a particularly dangerous setup. And again, especially with the market already down, it's a little less appealing to maybe take some off the table and apply it to those mortgages. So that would be my two cents on it, Rob.
Rob West:
Yeah, I would agree. Does that make sense, Jeff? Is that helpful at all?
Caller:
It all does, but you know what? When you go ahead and you look back at last year, okay, I'm still local on the stock market, so if I was to withdraw it, it wouldn't be a loss. And I know no matter what, I'm still paying 6% interest on these mortgages. I mean, I would just think that that's definitely a win. If I'm paying for the mortgage, then I'm not paying a 6% interest.
Rob West:
Yeah, no, and I think that's a good word, and I think that's a great way to think about it. You get a guaranteed interest rate equal to the mortgage interest rate, but if you were to look at the last two years, you actually would've done better in the market even after paying the interest. So I think you've just got to decide where do you feel most confident and then go in that direction. Hopefully, we've given you some things to think about. Thanks for your call.
We'll be right back.
Rob West:
Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions on investing-related topics: 800-525-7000. Mark Biller's here today.
Mark, you made an interesting statement a moment ago about the "correction" that we're in — and that term correction means essentially a decline of more than 10%. And if I understand correctly, we call it a "bear market" [when] we get over 20% and a "crash" if it's in a short period of time.
When we get to — you said corrections happen every 18 months on average. What about bear markets? What's the period there?
Mark Biller:
Yeah, that's a good question, Rob. I don't know that right offhand. They're definitely more rare and those are the types of events that, really, you can go back and count them just from memory. If we go back, we had a bear market in 2022 with a fall of about 25% for the S&P 500. We had, like you said, a crash in 2020 that was COVID-related. Prior to that, you had to go all the way back to the financial crisis in 2008/2009 for the last bear market.
So I think that that really illustrates an important point for people, which is, whereas with corrections — it's not like they come along every 18 months, that is just an average — but that is a little bit more of a reliable. You might go a couple of years, a few years without one, but they're going to come along every so often.
Bear markets are a little different, and you can go long stretches in between them. But then, as we just said a moment ago, you can also have them come along a little more frequently, like 2020 and then again in 2022. But when you've had a couple of bear markets like that, that often does indicate that you're a little bit less likely to have another one right away. Not that we're at right away stage because it's been three years already since that 2022 event, but those are just a couple of thoughts around corrections and bear markets.
One other thing that's very counterintuitive, Rob, that we've found from our study of all of these events over the last many decades is that it really is usually counterproductive to try to defend against these kind of routine corrections because they do just pop up. There isn't always a great reason for them to happen. They're just kind of a feature of the market. And so it really isn't until you get into a little bit deeper decline that then some of the probabilities start to shift and we start thinking about possibly taking some defensive measures. So anyway, just some thoughts on corrections and bear markets.
Rob West:
Yeah. Well, let's get off that quickly because we don't want to spend too much time there. (chuckle) We're taking your calls to questions from Mark Biller today: 800-525-7000.
To Carol Stream, Illinois. Hi Roy, go ahead.
Caller:
Hi, Rob. Hi Mark. Great to talk with you guys. I have a question regarding — the overarching question is about donor-advised funds.
And let me give you just a quick background on where I'm coming from. I'm getting ready to inherit a substantial amount of money and I want a tithe on it, and that's like six figures — well out of my range right now. But I'm planning ahead, and what I'm thinking is, is if I set up a donor-advised fund, I can effectively not have the standard deduction but have this as my deduction in that year and then use that lesser income to facilitate some Roth conversions from my conventional IRA. That's kind of the game plan.
And then I was doing some researching and there's limitations on how much you can contribute to the donor-advised fund that's actually tax-deferred — or tax beneficial, I guess I should say. So I'm not sure the mechanics of how I would do this. And so the one thought was: Can you do a donor-advised fund in 2025 and then another one in 2026 and keep getting those non-standard deduction years, or how does that all work?
Rob West:
Yeah, it's a good question. Mark, do you want to weigh in on that?
Mark Biller:
Yeah, sure. So that's great, Roy, that you're thinking ahead like this. And the detail that you're mentioning there with the tax side of that is that whether you're using a donor-advised fund or just making regular charitable contributions outside of a donor-advised fund, basically 50% [sic] of your income can be donated and you can get the tax advantage of that contribution against your income. In other words, you don't have to pay tax on that income because you've donated it.
The donor-advised fund is a great tool for making a big lump-sum contribution like this because you can make the contribution and then take some time to actually parcel out that contribution to the specific charities that you want the donation to go to. So the donor-advised fund kind of holds the money there while you're deciding how you want to kick that out to various charities. So that's a really nice option.
Rob, what did I miss there?
Rob West:
Yeah, I think you're right on there. One thought, though, is I believe it's 60% of AGI, but regardless whether it's 50% or 60% — and you just want to double-check that if it's a cash gift — I think Mark is right on there. So just understand through that "bunching strategy," by doing that all in one year, you're, of course, getting above the standard deduction, so that's going to help to offset the additional taxes that would be due on that [Roth] conversion. So maybe you stage that over multiple years.
But I love the way you're thinking here, Roy, because you're accomplishing several things. You're getting a large chunk of that inheritance into kingdom activity by way of either a direct gift or through the donor-advised fund and then granted out over time, and you're getting more money into the Roth, so now it's going to grow tax-free and you're taking advantage of the tax benefit that you get by getting above the standard deduction. So that's kudos to you for being creative there.
And so I would just get with your CPA and do some planning on that. But I like the way you're thinking, and I think that's going to be a great opportunity for you to get a lot of money into kingdom-building activities. Thanks for your call today, Roy.
Mark Biller's here today. We're talking "big moves" when it comes to your investing. When we come back, a few more of those from this latest edition of the Sound Mind Investing newsletter. Stay with us.
Rob West:
Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance Live. I'm Rob West. Mark Biller is here today. We're talking about getting the big moves right when it comes to investing. You can check out the article we've been referring to at soundmindinvesting.org. You can find it right there, free of charge: Getting the Big Moves Right. soundmindinvesting.org.
All right, Mark, we talked about the "importance of asset allocation" and "the amount that you invest each month." Also, "your investment plan." The next one is really around choosing your investments. What do our listeners need to know?
Mark Biller:
Yeah, so there are a number of different ways to do this, Rob. As you well know, at SMI, we focus on objective process-driven investment strategies that guide us from one investment to another over time. And so we walk our members step-by-step through that process as we follow these specific strategies.
There are other investors who don't do it that way at all. They might just focus on combining the right blend of stock and bond index funds to create a diversified portfolio that they don't have to make any changes to at all.
The main thing that I would suggest is whichever method you choose, do it thoughtfully. Don't get sucked into being a tip-driven investor. Even if those tips are coming from so-called experts on financial TV or wherever else you might find financial information. You really want to focus on establishing a good process for selecting your investments. That's really important.
And the next item in the article, Rob, is that once you've done that, you want to pick an appropriate benchmark to compare your results against. Don't just assume that everyone should compare to the S&P 500 index, even though that's the index that's always touted on TV and you see it online and so forth. If you have a bond-heavy portfolio — the S&P 500 measures the performance of large U.S. stocks — so you just have to match that up, or else you're going to be setting yourself up to be disappointed potentially as you're comparing against the wrong benchmark.
And I think an important point there is even better than using any particular index like the S&P 500, we would really encourage people to measure the results of their portfolio by comparing the average return that you need to achieve in order to accomplish your financial goals. And that comes from that investing plan that we talked about at the beginning of the program.
Everybody loves to beat the market. It feels great, but the real key is whether you're getting the returns that you need to ultimately hit the objectives in your plan, and you don't want to take more risk than you need to in order to meet your financial goals. There are no awards for that. So "pick the right benchmark" is a big piece.
Rob West:
But what about when your brother-in-law tells you how much he did in the market?
Mark Biller:
In Bitcoin, right?
Rob West:
Yeah, exactly. And you can't lose to your brother-in-law (chuckle) so no, that's a good point. You want to make sure you're achieving your goals, not someone for sure.
Mark Biller:
That's right.
Rob West:
Mark, when it comes to thinking about market performance, that, of course, isn't the same thing as meeting your investment goals at milestones along the way, so we need to consider that. But what about this idea of how often we look at our investments?
Mark Biller:
Oh man, that's a big one. If you pay close attention to the market every day, it really can drive you crazy. It goes up, it goes down. A lot of the time, there really isn't even a reason, per se, for that kind of daily fluctuation. And so that's a big reason why at SMI, we've designed our strategies so that our members only go in and interact with them once a month. For most people, that's enough. For some people, even just the quarterly statement is enough.
So really try to wean yourself off the habit of checking your Yahoo portfolio a couple of times a day because that'll drive you crazy.
Rob West:
Yeah, no question about that. All right, let's head back to the phones here. We'll finish up in Woodstock, Illinois. Laurie, how can we help?
Caller:
Hi, Rob. Hi, Mark. Thank you so much. I'm just wondering about any CDs that are good. I've heard you talk about the banks that are online, not brick-and-mortar. I have about $15,000 to invest.
Rob West:
Very good. Yeah, a couple of thoughts. I mean, you could go to Christian Community Credit Union if you want an option where they share your values. They're paying 5% right now on their high-yield savings up to 5,000. They've got CDs four and a half, four and three quarters. So those could be a great option. Again, that's joinchristiancommunity.com. That would be a great solution if you're looking for a faith-based institution.
Otherwise, if you just want to compare who has the best rates out there, you're right, you're going to do better with the online banks and bankrate.com or nerdwallet.com. Either of those would be helpful in finding who has the best rates right now. They're always moving around, and sometimes one has the highest versus another. Just depends a lot on how much they have available at the moment. But that would be a great solution for you.
Mark, any other thoughts on CDs?
Mark Biller:
No, bankrate.com is usually my go-to as well, Rob. I think the Federal Reserve is probably going to be moving rates lower, so locking in a slightly longer period of time today might be a good idea in case they do bring interest rates lower. But I wouldn't go out real real far. But that would be only my other thought.
Rob West:
Excellent. We appreciate your call, Lori. I hope that's helpful to you.
Mark, let's talk just for a moment about the markets. I mean, obviously we've been under quite a bit of pressure, although we need to put that in perspective. We talked earlier in the broadcast about just how strong this market has been and how long it's been since we've had any type of bear market, we've had phenomenal returns. So this idea that we were overvalued is pretty realistic, especially with a softening economy. But then you pile on top of that this massive uncertainty and tariffs and geopolitical and it's just a recipe for I guess a weak market. But just what are your general thoughts here? Rounding out the first quarter of the year?
Mark Biller:
Yeah, it's been a very unstable quarter, and, as you just alluded to, a lot of that is coming from the policy uncertainty. This is a big reason why we use trend-following strategies at SMI, and this year, probably more than any other year that I've been doing this, I really feel like it's very difficult to use the standard playbook, the projections from the past to guide us in what we should expect because we, this administration is trying to change the formula. They're changing the rules of the economic game globally.
And so I think that that really does call for a lot of humility as far as being able to project what's likely ahead. And as a result, we're not trying to project that. We're using our trend-following strategies to keep us on the right side of the market trend. And that's really an important thing I think in a time when things are pretty unstable.
Rob West:
No question about it. And I know you've been helpful to so many of our listeners, Mark, as we think about investing, many of them are wanting to manage it themselves, and that's where the Sound Mind Investing newsletter has been helpful. And then I know you have a private market side as well.
Tie a bow on this idea that we've been talking today about "getting the big moves right."
Mark Biller:
Yeah, I think if listeners are trying to come away with a few key points, they'd be these, create an investing plan very intentionally. Pick your strategy with care, then commit to that strategy and stick with it, even as the market is going up and down.
On this side of heaven, we're never going to have perfection, and that's going to apply to our investing as well. And so that just reminds us to focus on getting these big things and trying as much as we can to let go of the little things. Of course, while trusting the Lord and his direction all the way through to the best of our ability.
Rob West:
I think that's well said, Mark. And the idea that we would take a portion of what God entrusts to us — yes, we want to give it generously, and it's okay to provide for ourselves and even enjoy what God has given us — but we should be setting a portion aside for the future. And investing is the way to do that. And it's real company ownership — it's not gambling. And I think a lot of folks miss the difference between the two.
Mark Biller:
And especially these recent years when so much of the investing world really has tilted towards speculation — through crypto, Bitcoin, all the things that we talk about quite a bit. That line between investing and speculating and gambling has become a lot blurrier for a lot of people. So I love it that you just tied that to real investment in real companies driving the real economy forward for real people. That's what investing is all about, and I think it's great to keep your eye right on that ball.
Rob West:
Excellent. Mark, we're so grateful for you and the team there at SMI and we appreciate your time today. Thanks for stopping by.
Mark Biller:
Always my pleasure, Rob.
